AI broke the cybersecurity world. What’s next?

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Today, I’m talking with Alex Stamos, chief security officer at Cognition and longtime cybersecurity expert, about what a mess cybersecurity is right now. This episode is part one of a special series looking at AI in real life. I’ve always enjoyed talking to Alex because he’s so direct, and you’re going to hear him say that the multibillion-dollar cybersecurity industry as we’ve known it is essentially overdue to the unrelenting, AI-boosted waves of hacks, breaches, and attacks — and this is only the beginning of how much AI is changing security. Verge subscribers, don’t forget you get exclusive access to ad-free Decoder wherever you get your podcasts. Head here. Not a subscriber? You can sign up here. Both private actors and also state actors, like Russia or North Korea, are breaking into systems all over thanks to AI helping them both detect and exploit vulnerabilities all at the same time. It’s got a real frontier feel to it, Alex notes, just like the ’90s, when the whole idea of an always-online world was brand-new. That much disruption means a lot of places where bad guys can get in while everyone else is left scrambling. Alex isn’t a doomer in the long run, but he does think we’re in for a “dark age” while we try to figure out how on earth to adapt to the new era. There’s a lot going on here — we even got all the way to how AI-powered misinformation and slop might be managed on our social networks. Before we get going, do me a favor and subscribe to Decoder on YouTube, where we put out new episodes every Monday and Thursday. Okay: Alex Stamos on how AI is upending cybersecurity. Here we go. This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. Alex Stamos, you’re the chief security officer at Cognition. You’re also a lecturer at Stanford University Cyber Policy Center. Welcome back to Decoder. Hey, thanks for having me, man. I’m excited to talk to you. It’s been a long time since you and I chatted in what you might call the “content modera